Episode 33: Infertility, Recurrent Miscarriage, Lack of Compassionate Care

La’Vista Jones is the founder and CEO of 31 Marketplace, an agency committed to helping professionals do the work they love, without sacrificing themselves to do it. 

As a corporate dropout, turned entrepreneur she is on a mission to challenge others to shift the way they engage with their work, leverage their time and care for themselves in the process. La’Vista is a business strategist, professional speaker, host of the BOSS™ Talk podcast and published author. Her latest book, The BOSS™ Shift, is anchored in implementing her signature framework that focuses on battling overwhelm with systems and self-care. 

Through her company’s initiative, The Amplify Effect, La’Vista and her team help visionary entrepreneurs bridge the gap between innovation and impact by amplifying their unique voices through podcasting.

Although she is a proud native of Ohio, La’Vista currently resides in Arizona with her husband Stewart, their son publicly known as ‘The Cub’ and bull mastiff puppy, Atlas.

La’Vista went through infertility and 3 recurrent miscarriages during her motherhood journey. In this episode, she also discusses the lack of compassion that so many medical providers have towards families going through loss.

Listen to more episodes of the Finding Hope After Loss Podcast on Apple and Spotify!

Episode Transcript

Sarah Cox: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining me again today for the Finding Hope After Loss podcast. Did you know that August 22nd is National Rainbow Baby Day? If you’re not familiar, a rainbow baby is a baby that is born after a loss. I know that not everybody uses or likes this term. A lot of people think that it refers to the baby that they lost as being the storm.

But for me, I’ve always loved the term. It signifies a rainbow after the storm that I had to go through to get her. So the storm for me, it’s not Jasmine, but it’s the infertility, the losses, the grief, everything that I had to go through to get here. And National Rainbow Baby Day was founded in 2018, and it’s a day to honor all of the rainbow babies.[00:01:00]

As important as I think it is to honor all of the babies that aren’t here with us, I do think it’s also important to acknowledge the rainbow babies and all of our living children as well. All of our children, whether living or not, they’re all equally important to us. We love every single one of them. If you would like to check out more rainbow baby posts for the month of August, you can go to my Instagram or Facebook, which is Journey for Jasmine.

So today I am talking with LaVista. She’s a mother of four children, one of which is living, and then she went through infertility and three recurrent miscarriages. Hello everyone! Today I am here with Lovista. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

La’Vista Jones: Sure. So, I’m LaVista. Um, I am a 42 year old mother of four, though I have only held one of those babies, [00:02:00] um, on this side of Eternity.

Um, I run a company called 31 Marketplace, which actually helps, um, Entrepreneurs amplify their voices through podcasting, so helping them actually launch and sustain their podcast, you know, with all the post production, you know, stuff like that. Um, so me and my team, um, that’s what we focus on in the marketplace.

Um, married, I’ve been married for, um, Little over 11 years at this point, and, um, I’m an Ohio girl to my heart, uh, but now live in the, uh, the Southwest in Arizona, um, and have been here for a little over a decade.

Sarah Cox: Oh, wow. Do you like it in Arizona?

La’Vista Jones: You know, it’s grown on me, Sarah. So like when I first moved out here, I kind of hated it.

Um, I wasn’t, I didn’t have, I wasn’t working in my business at the time. I was still in corporate America. Um, so at the time I was an AVP, um, with a major bank. And so that’s like, what brought me out here [00:03:00] and every opportunity that I could Take to get back to Ohio. I took it. It was just like, Oh, I need to have like a face to face meeting with my boss.

You know, you live in Arizona now. And I’m like, yeah, but I need to come home to Ohio to do something. Um, but over time, you know, putting down some roots and having like a really great set of friends really helped solidify, like this, as my home. Um, and then, you know, the support that rallied around me and my family going through infertility before we had our son.

And then, um, all the support that they poured out on us during, um, my three losses after that, it was just like, okay, this is not where I was born, but this is truly my home. And I’ve, I’ve got family here that I have chosen and has chosen And so, yeah, Arizona, it’s grown on me. I

Sarah Cox: love that, that you, you know, you know, the [00:04:00] people that are around you can really make or break a place.

You know, we, we moved to Georgia, um, three years ago, like right before COVID hit, so it kind of took away like our chance to really like meet people. So I. Was pretty homesick during that time. I’m like, I don’t know anybody here in a new place. And so, yeah, those supportive people are super important,

La’Vista Jones: super important.

I, I don’t know that I realized how much having the group of core people here. Meant to me until I did get pregnant because I had always thought like, okay, we’ll play house out in Arizona until I, you know, get pregnant. And then I’m going home because it’s where my parents are. It’s where his parents are.

It’s where our family is. Um, but then when I got pregnant, you know, we kind of thought like, okay, well, do we stay here? Do we go home? Do we do this? Do we do that? And it was like, Hmm, this is like our place now. And it was, it had everything to do with the people who are around us. [00:05:00]

Sarah Cox: So can you talk a little bit about your infertility and loss journey?

La’Vista Jones: Yeah. Um, when we tried, when we first started trying to, to get pregnant, um, I was still with the bank, the position I had talked about earlier. And, um, we tried for about four years. Uh, to get pregnant. And so it was one of those things, um, that I’m sure that so many women that are dealing with infertility, you know, are familiar with like all the doctor’s appointments, you know, going in and having all the checkups and all of the, um, invasive, like ultrasounds and like the hormones and the shots, and you have the sex schedule and, you know, all this and it’s like, you’ve got to, you know, have sex at 802 tonight, you know, this is your window.

Um, and like I said, like we did that for four years, um, working with our doctor, um, taking, you know, various, you know, things to kind of help us along. And, [00:06:00] um, none of that stuff, none of that stuff worked. And, um, I had gotten to a place where I was tired of the disappointment. You know, with it because it’s, you know, month after month after month, you take that test, like in hope.

And then it’s like, okay, it’s negative. Okay. And then you take it again. And then, okay, it’s negative. And there was one time that I promised that I had, I was showing every sign of being pregnant. Like I was like, This is it. I know this is it. This has happened. And then I went and I took my last test and it was a slight negative.

And I was like, you know what? I’m done. Like I can’t do this anymore. Like I can’t continue to feel like my sex life is like a science experiment. I can’t keep doing this on a schedule, taking all the hormones. I was taking it, like made me feel like kind of crazy. Like I remember. Having like a breakdown in the kitchen because I couldn’t get the coffee creamer open and like my husband is looking at me.

He’s like, what is going on with you? I’m [00:07:00] like, I don’t know. But it’s like all my own hormones, all the stuff that like, you know, he’s giving me the shots at the house and you know, the stuff that we’re taking and I was like, I just I don’t feel like myself. I’m tired of the disappointment. And I remember, um, after taking that test, just kind of praying probably the most earnest prayer I’ve ever prayed.

And it was like, you know, um, God, if being a mom is for me, you’re just going to have to make that happen because I have literally tried everything that I know to do to make this happen and it’s not working. And it was like, but if I’m not supposed to be a mom, like if that’s not supposed to be part of my journey.

Like work on my heart because I don’t want to be bitter. I don’t want to, you know, have friends that are experiencing getting pregnant and having babies and in everything in me being invited to baby showers and feeling a certain kind of way. And like, I don’t want to go, like, why her, [00:08:00] not me kind of like, I don’t want to feel any of that.

So like work on my heart to be okay. This is not, you know, going to be part of my life. Um, And then, um, time went on, uh, and we weren’t really doing this whole, like, okay, we’re trying, we’re, like, focused on this, like, or whatever. Um, but then I noticed that my period was late, like, three weeks, and I’m like, well, that’s odd.

You know, this is something I’ve been tracking for years at this point, and I’m like, huh, I wonder, wonder what’s going on with me, right? And so we were, uh, on our way back to the, to Ohio. And so I had kind of just picked this arbitrary date in my mind and was like, well, if I don’t have my period by this time, I’m going to take a test and it happened to be the night that we were staying at my dad’s house.

I woke up that morning, took the test, put it on, you know, the sink, got in the shower, just like I had done for months over these, these years. And, um, I get out of the shower and [00:09:00] look. At the, uh, the thing, and I had gotten accustomed to using the, the pregnancy test that actually say the words pregnant or not pregnant.

And so I looked at it and it said pregnant. And the first thing I thought was like, great, I’ve got a defective test. I said, because the knots not working. And so, you know, I go on about my business and I start drying off and then I was like, well, wait a second. It’s like, I am late, you know, like, and I’m like looking, I’m like, oh, wow, like.

Oh my God, like I think I’m pregnant, right? And so I, I go into like the room where my husband was sleeping and, um, woke him up so he could start getting ready. And we had a trip planned that fall to go to Hawaii. It was like an annual trip that we would take. And I was like, you know, uh, cause I had done the mental math, like this is happening.

This is like when this baby’s going to be here. And I’m like, you know, I was thinking about the trip to Hawaii this year. And he’s like, what about it? And I was like, I don’t know if, you know, we’re going to be able to go. And he’s kind of looking at me like, [00:10:00] what in the world would keep us from like going to Hawaii?

And I’m like, I might be in labor. And he’s just like, Um, he’s like lovey stuff. We’ll cross that bridge if we get to it. And I’m like, no, no, no. The bridge is here. We have come to the bridge. The bridge is here. And he’s like, what? Because, you know, he’s like first waking up and he’s like, what are you talking about?

And I show him the test and he was like, Is this yours? And so then I’m like, seriously, like I’m literally the only woman in the whole house. Like, this is my test. Right. And so it was kind of like, oh my God, like literally years after years after years of trying and trying and trying and trying, it seems like we just kind of, this miracle just kind of happened for us.

And, um, His, the pregnancy with him, it was like textbook perfect. Like I had no morning sickness. Like I was just like this happy, jolly, roly poly, pregnant lady, [00:11:00] like showing off her belly, like any opportunity I could, it was amazing. Um, and he’s amazing. He’s, he’s my miracle baby. And, um, I think it was right around the time right before he turned two.

I was, I was pregnant again. Um, I was pregnant with my daughter. Um, so we were kind of keeping things a little hush, hush. Cause you know, we’re trying to get through that first trimester, um, and, and, and go into the second trimester. But we had told a couple of like close friends and, you know, everybody’s excited.

Cause it’s like, now we’ve got like, like the baby station is clearly open now. Right. And so, um, we Get all the way up until the weekend that we’re getting ready to announce And I get up when I get in the shower and I realized I was bleeding and like, I’m hysterically like screaming for him, like, you’ve got to get me to the doctor.

And um, you know, it was a really [00:12:00] surreal moment because maybe like a week earlier, I had just been at the doctor’s office. We had just had an ultrasound, I could see her on the screen, she’s jumping around and doing all this stuff. And we walked in, you know, they got me in, did the ultrasound and I’m looking at the screen.

Now having had, um, a healthy full term pregnancy and, you know, seeing her develop, like, I know what I’m supposed to be looking at. I know what I’m supposed to see on the screen. And I don’t see any of that. I don’t see anything happening. There’s no movement. I don’t hear that sound of like the baby’s heartbeat.

And so it’s just like, okay, like I know. And then it’s just like, everybody started treating me different. Like nobody was talking, like the tech wasn’t talking to me. And it was just like, you know, just get dressed and the doctor will be in. And it’s just like, Okay, is anybody going to actually tell me what I already know is happening?

Um, and so I ended up losing her right at that transition of going in from my first trimester into my second trimester. [00:13:00] Um, and I mean, it was devastating. It totally, um, caught me off guard, you know, didn’t see any, anything coming, no signs, you know, anything like that. Um, when. We got pregnant the third time.

There, there were, you know, some complications with that pregnancy. And I think that, you know, having had like that first miscarriage, I, um, was probably more paranoid. Right. And then I was like with the second one, because like the first pregnancy was great. Right. Like no issues, no anything. Like, um, There was no fear, you know, going into that second one, but the third pregnancy, I think I was like scared from like day one that, okay, like what’s going to happen.

Is this a sign of something? Is this a sign of something? Um, and actually close to the same timeframe, like going into that second trimester, um, is when I, um, went in for an ultrasound and they confirmed that his heart had stopped beating where the [00:14:00] difference was Um, from the, the first miscarriage is the, um, the baby stayed with me and stayed with me for about three and a half weeks.

And so like, even as like my hormone levels started to like decrease, um, like my body didn’t engage in the miscarriage process, um, until much, much later after they confirmed that the baby’s heart, um, had stopped beating. I remember talking after the fact with friends of mine that, you know, were there and supporting me through that process, just kind of saying like, we know that this first one was hard for you, but this one seemed so much worse for you.

And I was like, you know, probably, you know, from a mental standpoint, yes. Cause it was like every day I woke up and I looked pregnant and technically I still was pregnant, but like, I knew that like, this is not, This is not going to work out right and so like that was really hard to [00:15:00] carry him with me day after day after day for such a long time, um, knowing that I wasn’t going to like meet him, you know, and, um, then sometime went wrong.

on and I kept telling myself, like, I don’t want any more kids. And I remember telling that to my best friend and she’s like, okay, she was like, so when are you going to tell yourself the truth? And I’m like, okay, I do want more kids, but like, I’m afraid, right? I’m scared. And she was like, I totally get that.

She was like, but. If it’s something that you want, you still have to have like the hope, right? That this could happen for you. And so, um, in 2020, um, we got pregnant again. Um, you know, it was kind of like, oh, 2020 was going to be like this big year and like COVID hit. I was like, what in the world? But I turned 40 in 2020, um, and around that time was when I found out that I was pregnant.

Um, my son being older recognized like, oh, something’s going on with mommy. And I was like, [00:16:00] Aptly started calling the baby Rainbow. Like that was his nickname for the baby. Like, oh, Rainbow’s coming. And this is going to happen. And he was so excited about being a big brother. Because with the first two, he was much younger.

And so he knew like, okay, there’s a big, baby in mommy’s belly, but he didn’t really kind of understand like what was, what was going on with this one being older. He knew like, okay, like we’re supposed to be preparing for a baby. A baby is coming. We’re going to do this. I’m going to be a big brother, you know, whatever.

And unfortunately, um, two days before Christmas of that 2020, like I went into the bathroom again with this, like, Very similar to that second pregnancy, no signs, um, of anything like going on. And like, I went into the bathroom and noticed that I was bleeding. And so it was like, okay, like I know what’s happening.

Um, and that pregnancy was at like the eight week, um, timeframe. So not quite as long, um, into the pregnancy [00:17:00] as it was with the first two, um, but nonetheless devastating, um, of a reality to know that that baby was gone as well. And so, um, when I look at like my mother, her journey kind of as a whole, you know, as a younger woman, kind of like with these aspirations of like, this is what I want motherhood to look like for me.

It was like, I wanted to have four kids. And so, you know, in the grand scheme of things, like I introduced myself at the top of the show, I’m a mom of four, you know, I’ve had four heartbeats. Live in my body in addition to my own. And so even though I have not been able to meet the younger three, they were still here and they were still with me and, um, have learned to appreciate the moments in the time that we spent together.

I love that. I

Sarah Cox: mean, you know, where are, there’s that quote that says, you know, the, um, okay, now it’s like slipping my mind, but it’s about, um, how [00:18:00] you’re a mother, not just to the number of children you see, but to the number that you hold in your heart. And I’ve, I’ve always really liked that quote because we’ve had three losses as well.

And I have three living children, but I should have six, not just the three.

La’Vista Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, we took. Um, family photos that that Christmas of 2020, my husband happens to be a photographer and, um, he just knew like, Hey, I’ve got to get my wife like out of this house and do something. And so, you know, being here in Arizona, we’re in like this beautiful desert landscape and he had us all get dressed like down to like, my son had like a suit jacket on, like all this stuff.

And we went out to the desert and we took these pictures and, you know, cause I really needed. The smile, right? I really needed to feel a moment of joy. Um, and then, you know, I looked at those pictures. I was like, this is beautiful. But when I really look at it, it’s just like, it’s [00:19:00] bittersweet, right? Because it’s like, I am so appreciative of my son.

But I also recognize that like half of my family is gone. Like we should be a big family of six. We’re a family of three. Yeah,

Sarah Cox: so yeah. Did, um, did you ever find out a reason for your losses, or do they think that they were related at all, or just? All random

La’Vista Jones: or, you know, um, after the second one, um, my OB mentioned that, you know, maybe we could do some like genetic testing, you know, if I was wanting to, to get, uh, pregnant again, but like at that time I was telling myself like, Nope, Nope, not doing, I’m not doing this and that, you know, whatever.

And so we, we weren’t With the third and the fourth pregnancy, like we weren’t necessarily trying to get pregnant. Like with the second one, we definitely were trying to like have her, you know, we not as rigid as before when we were like dealing with the infertility as far [00:20:00] as, you know, like this like rigid sex schedule, but like, we were definitely trying to get pregnant again.

With the last two, it just kind of happened. And so, especially with like the last pregnancy, it was just like, I, you know, Having like testing and stuff like that done didn’t even cross my mind and it was such a short pregnancy that it was just like everything just kind of like seemed like happened like all at once right like almost as soon as I realized I was pregnant, you know, like very shortly after I was losing the baby and so we never went through any kind of like formal testing or anything like that to like understand or know why or try to put a reason to it so I honestly I don’t know.

You know

Sarah Cox: that sometimes I mean knowing. A reason doesn’t bring him back. I know it doesn’t help, but, you know, um, I was just always curious because, you know, doctors, um, won’t always do the testing until you’ve had, you know, three losses or multiple ridiculous, but

La’Vista Jones: I won’t even go there. [00:21:00] No, I understand exactly what you’re saying.

Yeah. I think that if for me personally, I think that if I were younger on the younger side, I probably would have pursued like, let’s do some testing. Let’s kind of figure out like what’s going on with my body. But you know, I had that last miscarriage at 40, you know, even with my son, um, I think I was 35 when I had him.

And so it was like, That’s borderline, like, what, geriatric, uh, OB, and I’m like, what, I’m 35 years old, like, what are you talking about? But, I mean, when it comes to, like, reproductive, you know, timeline, you know, I’m kind of at that phase where it’s just like, mm, you know, like, the risk factors go up for me, it goes up for the babies, you know, all these different things, and so, I think that, you know, after I had that loss in 2020, I knew for sure I was done.

And so it’s like, [00:22:00] even getting answers at that point, it’s just like, what would I do with this information? Because I’m not going to engage in going through this process again. I don’t, I don’t need that. That makes sense.

Sarah Cox: Yeah. So do you talk about or share your story very often with others?

La’Vista Jones: You know, I do and have shared really since day one of, um, our infertility struggle.

Um, my husband and I are very different in that way. He’s a much more private person than I am. Um, but I’ve always kind of felt like, Hey, to be authentically me, I need to share my truth and, you know, and my truth there was for a really long time that I was like this aspiring mother. Who was like grasping at hope for like years trying to like hold on to this dream that I wanted and that I had wanted since I was a little girl to be a mom.

And what I realized after [00:23:00] starting to tell my story was there were so many other women dealing with the exact same thing that like never say anything about it. So I would, you know, talk about like, you know, okay, here, I’m disappointed today because this is like the, You know, 30th test that I’ve taken that’s come back negative.

Right. And feel in a certain kind of way, I’m feeling discouraged. I’m feeling disappointed. I’m feeling, you know, hopeless, like however I was feeling in the moment. And women would like come out of the woodwork, like texting me, DMing me like, Oh my gosh, like I’ve been trying for like eight years. Oh my gosh.

Like we’ve been trying, you know, this long and dah, dah, dah. And it’s just like, there was a resonant. Um, connection there with like sharing my story. And so when we had the losses, I did the same, even though, you know, we weren’t, I didn’t shout it from the mountaintops, like, Hey, we’re pregnant. It’s just like, this is still something very real and very traumatic that has happened to me.

And like, I’m not okay [00:24:00] right now. And like, this is how I’m feeling. And this is why I’m feeling this way. And. You know, people will get posts like, you know, what would have been like my daughter’s first birthday. Like, I remember that, right? Cause it’s like, from the time that I knew that she existed, you start, you know, casting like what that future is going to look like.

Oh, this is going to be baby’s first Christmas. And this was going to be this, that we’re going to do this vacation or whatever. And when those moments come and that baby’s not there, like. Sometimes that triggers you and it brings up all these emotions and things like that. And so I would share, and again, women would reach out and they would tell me like, you know, I’ve had X amount of miscarriages, but I’ve never felt like I could share or like say that to anybody.

So thank you for sharing your story because you’re kind of this voice. that I don’t feel like I have. I can remember after making a poster, I think like on a podcast I had been on, a woman reached out to [00:25:00] me and told me she had had 14 miscarriages. And had never told anybody that she had experienced that many losses.

And I was just like, what? Like, I can’t imagine being and feeling so isolated and feeling like you’re dealing with that completely by yourself. Loss after loss after loss. So, uh, that’s a long way, right? For me to say, yes, I definitely share, um, the stories, um, and what I’ve experienced from the infertility side and miscarriage side as well.


Sarah Cox: actually had that kind of a similar experience when I first started sharing that all these people that I never, never even knew had had a lot of like reached out and I’m like, Oh my gosh, like there’s all these people around us that you just don’t, you don’t even know. And, and, you

La’Vista Jones: know, it’s so odd.

I find that, you know, you know, the stats, right. It’s such a common occurrence that happens, um, with [00:26:00] the women that are dealing. and facing infertility with women that, um, lose pregnancies. It’s so common. It is so common. Like the, the science, like the stats, like it tells us. So, and like that, those are the things like we know about, like, those are the women that we know about that are dealing with infertility.

Those are the women that we know about that have experienced loss. Like those numbers are probably even higher. Um, but yet it still seems like such a taboo. Kind of subject. And it’s like, we don’t talk about that. And it’s like, but why? Because I think that there is, you know, um, healing in, in sharing, like what’s going on or what you’ve experienced, um, when you go through something so just heartbreaking, like in your life.

Sarah Cox: I saw recently they updated the statistic for infertility that used to be like one in eight couples, and now it’s one in six couples. So, um, I’m not surprised by that and I’m sure the loss [00:27:00] numbers could probably be higher too, I think. A lot of women may not even know that they’re going through one.

La’Vista Jones: Exactly. Exactly. Because, you know, if they’re earlier in the pregnancy, it’s probably not as, um, severe, right? Of like the, the, the process. Cause that, that was my experience, right? Like with the first one being so far along, like I labored, um, with my daughter for four and a half hours, right? And because we don’t talk about it, that’s one of those things, like, I didn’t know that I was going to still labor a baby, right?

It was just like. What is happening? Like, I know what this felt like. These are contractions. What is happening right now? Like, nobody talks about that. And so it’s just like, oh, and so it’s like when I tell like friends, like, yeah, this is what this process really looked like or felt like. And they’re like, really?

And I’m like, yeah, yeah. And I

Sarah Cox: feel like that’s something too, that like doctors should prepare you for. And I don’t think they do at [00:28:00] all. They’re like, you know, just go. Take this medicine or go, you know, do this, this and this, and then you’ll bleed and then come back when you’re pregnant again, or, you know, whatever it is.

La’Vista Jones: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a very like the the bedside manner, I think, for women that are experiencing loss. There’s some work on there, um, just, you know, dealing with that situation in a much more compassionate way. Like I can, thankfully, my, um, my OBE. Um, was, I thought that she was very kind during, um, during that process.

Some of the other staff, you know, not, not necessarily that they were mean to me, but it was just kind of like a very sterile kind of response. And it’s like, Oh, Mrs. Jones, I need to take your blood. And it’s just like, I’m sitting here sobbing, right? Because like my baby is gone. And it’s just [00:29:00] like, yeah, I need a blood sample.

And it’s just like, Okay, but I can remember, um, because. You know, she had experienced like all those losses with me. Um, like that third one, like she just like sat there in the room and just like held me and like cried with me. And she was like, I really thought this was going to be different. She was just like, I was like rooting for, you know, this.

And it’s just like, in that moment, I needed that. And I’m like, thank you for being a human. Right. And like taking that doctor hat off even for just a moment and recognizing I’m in agony and like having empathy for what I’m dealing with right now. Um, and I think that that’s the piece that is unfortunately is just missing.

It’s a very sterile clinical conversation and there’s not a lot of heart and compassion with it. And that needs to change.

Sarah Cox: [00:30:00] It definitely does. I remember when, um, when I was having one of my miscarriages, um, my, uh, fertility doctor wasn’t like the overly like friendly, like, you know, type of, of doctor, but he did his job and, you know, but, um, when I remember when I was going through my miscarriage that, uh, he just let me cry and gave me a hug.

And I was just like, Whoa, like I didn’t, I didn’t expect this from him, but you know, just like they, they need to see that those little moments mean everything.

La’Vista Jones: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Because, you know, somebody going through something so traumatic, like, it makes other people uncomfortable. And I get that, right?

Especially loss, like, any kind of loss. Um, you know, you don’t really know, like, what am I supposed to do or what am I supposed to say? Um, but, you know, at the same time, like, there, I think that if you just tap in, like, this is a person who’s hurting and not even focus so much [00:31:00] on, like, the why, it’s just, like, You can empathize and connect with somebody hurt to hurt, like you know what it feels like to hurt.

And it’s like, just act out of that. Like you’re hurt. Okay. Let me treat you like another person who’s experiencing hurt. Not be so like emotionally cut off in the situation because it’s like, that’s not really, that’s not helpful. Right. Yeah, no,

Sarah Cox: I definitely agree with that. I like, I like that. Like, just looking at it as one hurt person to another hurt person, not like you trying to fix it or solve it because you can’t, because you

La’Vista Jones: can’t, you can’t, like, nothing fixes that.

Nothing. So before,

Sarah Cox: yes, before you went through infertility and loss, did you ever expect that to happen to you? Like, did you ever have a feeling that you would have trouble or were you just caught off

La’Vista Jones: guard? I [00:32:00] didn’t, I didn’t have, um, any kind of inkling, like on either front, right? Like, I just kind of thought, Hey, you know, when we make the decision, it’s time for us to like have babies.

Yeah. We’ll do what we know we’re supposed to do to make a baby and, you know, we’ll go from there. And so I think you know what it what I think it’s like in a year that you are supposed to go with like Trying and like you’re not successful at getting pregnant for you to realize like oh like maybe I’m dealing with infertility because I don’t even think they’ll start testing until like you’ve been trying for like at least a year or whatever and And so I just kind of thought like, Oh, like it’s not the right timing or like, you know, whatever, whatever.

And then it was just like, this seems like this is taking a little longer than I thought that this is going to take. And so I’m like, maybe we should go see somebody. Um, and so then that’s like when everything just kind of started. And I think during that phase. I [00:33:00] would have welcomed a problem if that makes any sense.

Like tell me like something is weird with my hormones or tell me like my husband’s sperm count is off. Or it’s like, we both checked out healthy. Like all of like, our levels were great. Like from like a physicality, like my body was like, there, there was nothing that they could find a pinpoint and say, like, Like, here’s the cause or like, this is what we should focus on or whatever.

And so then it was just kind of like, we’re just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing like, is any of this stuff going to work? Like you’ve been on this drug for like six months, not doing anything. Let’s try this. Okay. Let’s do these injections at home. Let’s do it. And it was just like, like, what is happening right now?

Like, this is, this is crazy. And so, um, no, I didn’t see any of that coming. Um, And like I was sharing, like with the second pregnancy, like once I, once I had our son, I kind of thought, you know what, that rough patch, it’s behind us. [00:34:00] We’ve like, something has like course corrected itself. Like, like something right.

Has happened, you know, that we were able to have him. And so then when I got pregnant again, It never even crossed my mind that we might run into an issue. And I think because like my pregnancy was hit with him was like so wonderful. Um, it was just like, like, why wouldn’t that be the case again? Right. And so that first miscarriage completely blindsided me because it was just like, what, like, what is, what is this?

Like what’s happening? Um, I thought that the hard part of me becoming a mother, I thought that was over. I had

Sarah Cox: the exact same, exact same experience. We had, um, the infertility, had my son followed by three losses. And I’m like, okay, but isn’t going through the infertility enough? Isn’t that enough of a challenge to not have to also be faced with the loss?

Like, why are you throwing both at me?

La’Vista Jones: Yes. Yes, [00:35:00] exactly. I, the exact same questions, like, like, cause like I said, like, I thought like, that was. the hurdle I needed to get over. Like, I got over that. I’ve got the baby. Like, there he is. Like, I’m looking at him. I hear him, right? So, it’s just like, we’re good to go from here on out, right?

It’s, uh, it was just like, well, not so much. And so, it’s just like, okay.

Sarah Cox: So, is there anything, um, you found that has helped you process your grief?

La’Vista Jones: Um, you know, I think that one of the biggest, um, things is Talking about it. Um, not keeping it to myself. Um, because one, it’s connected me to some resources that like, especially when I was like fresh in the grief that like I really needed.

Um, one of them, there is a group here in Arizona. Um, for international bereaved mother’s day. They actually [00:36:00] put a bus trip together for bereaved mothers. Um, they get some sponsorships and stuff like that. It’s completely free for the moms to, um, attend. And, um, they take you like up North. Um, like, so Northern Arizona is like very beautiful.

There’s a lot more trees, vegetation, cause you’re in higher elevation. And they have like all these things set up. Like you can just like, Go, you know walk or go like take a nap or like they have art therapy stuff there that you can do They’ve got music playing There’s places where you can go and journal There’s places where you can go and get like makeup like there’s all this stuff right that you can do Um, not to necessarily get your mind off of it, but to just like, feel like you again, right.

And like reconnect with like yourself and like sit with your thoughts and, you know, cry if you want to, cause you’re around all these other mothers that are going through the exact same thing that you’re going through. And, um, I remember the first time [00:37:00] I was on that bus trip, like on the way up, they went around, um, before we got to like the destination.

And they asked the mothers if they wanted to share their baby’s names. And I don’t think other than like my immediate family, I had ever said their names. Out loud to other people. And it was just like, I don’t have to, you know, have like a veil of shame or feeling like I need to like be restrictive with what I share because these women know exactly what I’m dealing with.

Right. And so it was like listening to all these names of all these babies. And it was just like, I’m not alone in this. And I think the other part of, you know, sharing it was, um, You know, my friends were able to see like, Oh, like this is like in detail, like what she went through, like, she needs us, like, she needs us to like lean in and [00:38:00] send meals and like, come take care of her son and like, give her some space or, you know, those kinds of things, or, you know, they would find like books that they thought would be supportive, um, you know, for me or.

Um, different gifts that like they were going out and searching, like, what is something I can send like a mom that’s just lost a baby. And I think that without saying, Hey guys, world, this is what’s happened to me. It would have been a very lonely process to go through. Um, and I needed the support and, you know, that came with me sharing my story.

Sarah Cox: Sounds like you have a lot of amazing friends in your life.

La’Vista Jones: I most definitely do.

Sarah Cox: Did you find, was your family supportive too?

La’Vista Jones: You know, they were, they were very supportive. Um, My family, like, is, like, older, um, and so, like, they’re definitely from that generation of, like, you don’t talk about, like, those kind of [00:39:00] things, but, so, the interesting part is, like, when I started having, like, issues with the fertility and I started having, like, these miscarriages, that’s when I started hearing stories of like, Oh, well, you know, aunt such and such dealt with X, Y, and Z.

And it’s like, what? Like, how do you not tell like those stories? Like, how do you not share that? But again, it’s just like, that’s not what we talk about. And so it was like, I think that there was even some deeper connections made like with my family, because it was just like, I had no idea. That you dealt with that, or I had no idea that like you lost children.

Um, and you know, it is what it is. It’s a connection that you have like with another mother when you know that that’s something that they have experienced because you understand it like nobody else does. And so they were supportive on the. front side anyway, but then knowing more about like [00:40:00] their truth, it was just like, Oh, okay.

Like I see you differently. And, you know, now I think that you see me differently. Like we see each other in a whole new way. Um, because this is something that we’ve experienced, um, not necessarily together, but like, we both know what this is like. I mean,

Sarah Cox: yeah, I do understand, you know, that the, that there is a, that generation that doesn’t talk about loss and infertility and stuff.

But like you said, I think it’s good when, when they can talk about it, because then you know that there’s somebody else in your family, you know, and without it, like you’re kind of blindsided if you have issues thinking, Oh, I’m the only one in my family who’s dealt with this. And then you’re like, Oh, there’s other ones.

Like, I kind of wish I had known that before,

La’Vista Jones: you know, right. Because, you know, like when you were talking about like testing for like the miscarriages. Like if I had known that there was, you know, Oh, like this person has dealt with this or this person has dealt with that, that maybe would have triggered like, Oh, by the way, doc, like [00:41:00] my, you know, aunt dealt with that, like, is that something I need to be concerned about?

Or is that something I need to try to take a precaution, you know, or think about or like, whatever. Um, and who knows, you know, if that would have changed income, you know, outcomes of anything. Um, But I, I also think that’s another reason why we need to talk about, you know, these things more openly because, um, sharing that kind of stuff can be helpful in more ways than one.

Sarah Cox: Yeah, I definitely agree. Do you have any, um, advice for someone who’s newly going through a loss or infertility?

La’Vista Jones: Yeah, um, I would tell them to hold on to hope, you know, even if they have to borrow it from someone or somewhere else. And I would tell them to, um, Acknowledge and, you know, just kind of, um, own like [00:42:00] whatever they’re feeling.

And if it’s the feeling of frustration, if it’s sadness, if it’s the grief, if it’s anger, you know, whatever that is. Um, and you know, share that with somebody, you know, even if it can’t be like your significant other, your spouse, have somebody that you can share that with so that when you recognize you’re not by yourself, you Um, because I think that going through infertility and miscarriage or one or the other, it can feel very isolating.

It can feel like I’m the only one that’s dealing with this or nobody else is going to understand. And it’s just simply not true. Um, and even if they themselves have not gone through it, if it’s someone that you trust, Um, you know, they’re likely going to treat you with compassion, you know, be that listening ear for you and maybe even be able to point you in the direction of some like resources or tools or like a group or, you know, somebody like maybe they go, you know, maybe they work [00:43:00] with somebody that has dealt with that.

And it’s like, Hey, would you mind meeting with this person so that you have somebody that you can actually go through this with, because as much as it might feel like you’re by yourself, you’re really not.

Sarah Cox: Definitely. I, I really like that advice. Support is key to getting through loss. And I mean, you never really get over the grief, but you learn how to, how to live with it, how to,

La’Vista Jones: you know, move with it.

Yeah. Yeah. You learn how to adjust to your new normal. I mean, you don’t. I have to like it like I don’t like it like I don’t like the fact that I have three babies that I’ll never meet like that’s going to be a part of me that’s missing for the rest of my life. But I also have to keep living my life. I also have to be able to be, um, a whole mother, you know, for my son.

And so it’s just like, you learn how to adjust, you know, you learn the [00:44:00] tools that help you get through the good days and the bad days. Um, but a big part of that is support because you can’t do that by yourself.

Sarah Cox: You know, definitely not. I think it’s one of those times you don’t have to be strong. You don’t have to.

You can ask for help. You can accept.

La’Vista Jones: Please, please ask for the help that you need. Like, please.

Sarah Cox: So, is there anything else that you would like to share or add?

La’Vista Jones: Um, you know, the only other thing is that, you know, if you feel comfortable, um, doing so, share your story, right? Because your voice is going to matter to that audience.

Next woman that is like dealing with all of the stuff that she’s dealing with all of the emotional stuff that she’s dealing with all the physical stuff that she’s dealing with thinking that, you know, she’s walking this journey alone and [00:45:00] your voice might be that one voice that she needs to hear to be like, okay, I can do this.

I love that. Yeah, if you’re comfortable, share your voice because like we’ve both shared, you know, us sharing our stories more publicly, like there are tons of women behind those posts, those stories, those face, you know, or those podcast interviews that never say anything. And you speak for them.

Sarah Cox: I think that’s great.

You know, um, it’s, I’ve always said, if, if I just help one person, then I’ve done what I intended to do.

La’Vista Jones: Absolutely. Well, I

Sarah Cox: want to thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story. Oh,

La’Vista Jones: thank you, Sarah, for having me so much. Thank

Sarah Cox: you so much, LaVista, for sharing your story with us. I wanted to touch on the comment you made about the bedside manner lacking for women and families who are going through loss.

I really hate that there’s no [00:46:00] standard of care across the nation and across the world for loss. It really just depends on luck of the draw. Which doctor you happen to see, which hospital you happen to be at. Some are absolutely amazing. They do everything they possibly can for you. Others are just cold and clinical and try to just get you out the door without offering much in the way of support.

And I think it’s incredibly unfair that women and families that are already going through a traumatic experience have to deal with this kind of treatment. In my mind, doing something is better than doing the nothing that a lot of places currently do. Again, there really needs to be some sort of standard.

Like, these are the things that we’re going to offer all lost families across the board. Pictures, handprints or footprints, a list of resources, information about [00:47:00] cremation versus burial, um, mental health resources, just any kind of support that they can offer. Somebody to help you walk through the options, to help you understand, you know, what your, what choices you need to make, what decisions you need to make, just things like that, that a lot of people Don’t ever get the option of.

Many of us have never been through pregnancy loss before, you know, before we go through it, obviously. We’re all just doing the best we can. We don’t know what we’re doing. We don’t know what we don’t know. We don’t know the things that we should be doing. Sometimes we don’t even know the things that We could be doing, you know, I didn’t know that giving a baby a bath after they’re still born is an option.

That was something that I didn’t even know to ask about. I don’t know if that would have been an option for me, but I didn’t even know to ask about that. [00:48:00] And it’s one of those things I wish I had known. So it would just be really nice to have someone to help walk you through all of these things so that we don’t have those regrets later that we weren’t able to do those things.

So my parting question to you, what do you think should be included if there were a standard of care for lost families? I would love to hear your answers. You can always, like I said, send me a message on Instagram or Facebook at Journey for Jasmine, or you can send me an email, which is sarah, S A R A H, at journeyforjasmine. com. So thank you so much for tuning in, and remember, we are all in this together.

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